The global cultural icon Madonna and renowned podcaster Jay Shetty recently engaged in a rare and deeply personal conversation, featured on the "Jay Shetty Show," where Madonna emphasized that her spiritual life has been the key to her endurance and sanity over nearly three decades. She states frankly, “I absolutely would not be where I am or who I am if I did not have that”.
Her intention for sharing this wisdom is not to promote a product, but to share something that has "pretty much saved my life". Madonna has been studying Cabala (Kabbalah) since 1996, a period spanning 29 years. For her, a spiritual life involves having an internal life, taking time out of every day for prayer, meditation, and contemplation to look inward and take stock.
Jay Shetty opened the conversation by acknowledging the rarity of Madonna’s interviews, noting that she usually only does them to promote her work, such as music, a tour, or a film. Shetty shared his gratitude for the opportunity to have the conversation in person after numerous FaceTime calls. He commented that the spiritual path seems "extremely meaningful" to Madonna, and often she does not get to share this deep part of her life in other spaces.
Madonna recounted that her search for answers began despite her immense external success; she had a successful career, fame, fortune, and material things, but she "wasn't happy". She realized that believing "the physical world is all there is"—an illusion—would have been her downfall. Her conscious spiritual awakening was catalyzed when she became pregnant with her oldest daughter, Lola, which forced her to confront what she would teach another human being.
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A central teaching that has helped her navigate a challenging life is the principle that everything happens for a reason—to teach us a lesson—and the goal is to be “awake enough” and “interested enough” to find that reason. This approach allows her to avoid living life as a victim.
Shetty provided a relatable framework by mentioning the "third space theory," the idea that humans once had a dedicated space (like a temple or church) for self-reflection and introspection, separate from work and home. Madonna agreed, further noting that removing the spiritual life and the workplace eventually leaves people looking only at their phones, an environment where consciousness is easily lost, leading to a feeling of being "nowhere".
Madonna shared that this spiritual awareness profoundly influenced her art, especially her "Ray of Light" album, which was "100% influenced by my study". She learned that she is not the owner of her talent, but the "manager of the light," serving as a vessel to channel creative energy. She contrasted this with peers who had “meteoric careers” but "didn't understand the concept" of restrictions, which led to burnout.
On the topic of success, Madonna and Shetty dispelled the notion that spirituality and success are incompatible. Madonna asserted: “You need to be spiritual to be successful. Success is having a spiritual life. Period”. Shetty made the assumption that without her spiritual path, Madonna would not be as successful in her work, marriage, or friendships.
Madonna also spoke about applying these teachings to the most painful moments, including a custody battle with her son, which she described as feeling like the "end of the world". It was only through continuous study that she reached radical acceptance. She defined radical acceptance as accepting that what is happening, no matter how uncomfortable, is "meant to happen to you and that you're going to be okay". Furthermore, she shared that a recent severe bacterial infection (sepsis) highlighted the acute necessity of forgiveness, revealing that holding grudges is a "prison and it's poison".
The conversation emphasized that true manifestation is also a spiritual partnership. Madonna explained that success is manifested "with the help of God" and not achieved "on my own". Manifesting success happens "whenever you want something for the sake of sharing," contrasting this with short-lived happiness derived from selfish desire for material things. Shetty praised this perspective, noting that this definition moves beyond the purely functional, input-output manufacturing approach often associated with modern manifestation concepts.
Madonna's journey, as detailed with Jay Shetty, provides an intimate look at how deep spiritual conviction allows one to overcome challenges, embrace accountability, and understand that life’s hardest tests are ultimately opportunities to reveal “the greatest amount of light”.
